Isnt the news depressing sometimes?

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[Scorpious]

Mmmm, Laurel.  That's a nice place.  (yes, that was sarcasm, and no, I don't have any particular predjudice against the place, just sketchy experiences)

Do video games cause violence?  No.  Can people who are predisposed to voilence have those tendancies reinforced by violent video games?  Probably.  Movies, music, and all other pop culture will do the same.  Every individual takes a unique personal experience away from every interaction and activity they engage in.  That doesn't make any of the activities instigators of violence.  Heck, religion has caused a lot more violence historically than any current pop culture, but even that doesn't translate into religion being fundamentally bad. 

The news is teriibly depressing, but you might argue that watching so much crap on the nightly news *should* be giving us all the werewithal to identify and stop similar situations in our own lives.  Of course, that would involve people regaining a sense of personal responsibility.  Guess it goes back to learning that actions have consequences, and the news also seems to point out that in lots of situations, if you are the right kind of person, you don't suffer consequences...

More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason.

As for Laurel being a weird or bad place, yeah I'll agree one hundred percent with you Faith. I'll be glad when I move away in the next few years to Ohio, or wherever my budget will allow me to live.

[Scorpious]

Scorpious

Mmmm, Laurel.  That's a nice place.  (yes, that was sarcasm, and no, I don't have any particular predjudice against the place, just sketchy experiences)

Do video games cause violence?  No.  Can people who are predisposed to voilence have those tendancies reinforced by violent video games?  Probably.  Movies, music, and all other pop culture will do the same.  Every individual takes a unique personal experience away from every interaction and activity they engage in.  That doesn't make any of the activities instigators of violence.  Heck, religion has caused a lot more violence historically than any current pop culture, but even that doesn't translate into religion being fundamentally bad. 

The news is teriibly depressing, but you might argue that watching so much crap on the nightly news *should* be giving us all the werewithal to identify and stop similar situations in our own lives.  Of course, that would involve people regaining a sense of personal responsibility.  Guess it goes back to learning that actions have consequences, and the news also seems to point out that in lots of situations, if you are the right kind of person, you don't suffer consequences...

More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason.

As for Laurel being a weird or bad place, yeah I'll agree one hundred percent with you Faith. I'll be glad when I move away in the next few years to Ohio, or wherever my budget will allow me to live.

[QuiJon]

Those kinda murder Suicide stories i really hate.

If life has you down lean into the pitch and take one for the team. Its social Darwinism at its best, but why take out your loved ones with you ill never get.

Around 2001 here in sacramento we had some asshat russian immagrant (not that that matters just always remembered that from the story) that apparently his wife and him got in a fight and she left and went to his sisters and i guess they were talking about what they were fighting about.

He got pissed that she would discuss their personal info with his sister, kill both her and his own sister and her kids. Then went to his mothers house who was watching his 2 year old son, picked up the son and left.

After picking him up i guess the police were on to him and they later found his son in a cardboard box with a few new toys with his throat slit. Apparently the bastard taunted his son into a box with new toys to kill him.

Im normally a pretty liberal guy and even for the most part argue against the death penelty, however after they caught this piece of crap, a couple days later the sacramento county sherriffs found him hung in his cell in the "Suicide watch" wing of the county jail. I cant say im dissappointed that the police werent investigated to heavily over that one.

I just always remember the story cause at the time my first kid was about 10 months old and i couldnt imagine how you look strait on into your sons eyes and put him in a box and kill him. You hear about alot of bad things happening to kids, but man really that first big story after you have one of your own just sticks with you.

[QuiJon]

QuiJon

Those kinda murder Suicide stories i really hate.

If life has you down lean into the pitch and take one for the team. Its social Darwinism at its best, but why take out your loved ones with you ill never get.

Around 2001 here in sacramento we had some asshat russian immagrant (not that that matters just always remembered that from the story) that apparently his wife and him got in a fight and she left and went to his sisters and i guess they were talking about what they were fighting about.

He got pissed that she would discuss their personal info with his sister, kill both her and his own sister and her kids. Then went to his mothers house who was watching his 2 year old son, picked up the son and left.

After picking him up i guess the police were on to him and they later found his son in a cardboard box with a few new toys with his throat slit. Apparently the bastard taunted his son into a box with new toys to kill him.

Im normally a pretty liberal guy and even for the most part argue against the death penelty, however after they caught this piece of crap, a couple days later the sacramento county sherriffs found him hung in his cell in the "Suicide watch" wing of the county jail. I cant say im dissappointed that the police werent investigated to heavily over that one.

I just always remember the story cause at the time my first kid was about 10 months old and i couldnt imagine how you look strait on into your sons eyes and put him in a box and kill him. You hear about alot of bad things happening to kids, but man really that first big story after you have one of your own just sticks with you.

[Scorpious]

Those kinda murder Suicide stories i really hate.

If life has you down lean into the pitch and take one for the team. Its social Darwinism at its best, but why take out your loved ones with you ill never get.

Around 2001 here in sacramento we had some asshat russian immagrant (not that that matters just always remembered that from the story) that apparently his wife and him got in a fight and she left and went to his sisters and i guess they were talking about what they were fighting about.

He got pissed that she would discuss their personal info with his sister, kill both her and his own sister and her kids. Then went to his mothers house who was watching his 2 year old son, picked up the son and left.

After picking him up i guess the police were on to him and they later found his son in a cardboard box with a few new toys with his throat slit. Apparently the bastard taunted his son into a box with new toys to kill him.

Im normally a pretty liberal guy and even for the most part argue against the death penelty, however after they caught this piece of crap, a couple days later the sacramento county sherriffs found him hung in his cell in the "Suicide watch" wing of the county jail. I cant say im dissappointed that the police werent investigated to heavily over that one.

I just always remember the story cause at the time my first kid was about 10 months old and i couldnt imagine how you look strait on into your sons eyes and put him in a box and kill him. You hear about alot of bad things happening to kids, but man really that first big story after you have one of your own just sticks with you.

A quick edit: If anyone needs this explained to them, just let me know and I'll inform you to the best of my abilities.

Just so everyone knows, if any of you are sensitive to any real degree, you don't want to read on in this post I'm about to make.

I had a craptastic social life basically from middle school right up until two years ago, and that's probably eleven years or so. I had to basically endure people ripping on me all the time so instead of crying like I used to developed a skill which I now regret having: absolute emotional disconnection and detachment. When a human does that, they won't really see as what they'd do as right or wrong, just really something to keep them alive, or to get their point across.

To say I was entirely without friends in high school would be a lie. I had a few, and I do mean literally only a few. I had gotten into so much trouble in middle school and high school because I fought other kids, and I don't mean simply pushing them, I mean stabbing them with pens, beating them until their eyes swelled up and sometimes went to the hospital. How I never ended up going to court is still beyond any rational thought from me. In the eleventh grade I was pretty pissed during lunch and one of my friends politely asked me to move, except I heard something entirely differently and there were these metal beams in some hallways because of those pull-down doors and I slammed him, as well as the back of his head into it.

At that point, I normally would have just walked away, except for the fact I saw the expression of absolute pain on his face and that he was who I considered a real friend. I like to see emotional disconnecting and detatchment as having a light bulb turned on, the light bulb when turned on is basically exerting power to keep the emotions in check. Every now and then though, a power surge hits the house and the light bulbs go out instantly. In essence, my hold over my emotions snapped like a twig being stepped on. I really injured a close friend of mine and I broke down and started crying in the hallway, and in the office, and not because I was in trouble, I was used to that. I was crying because I was afraid I had sent one of my few friends to the hospital.

I got suspended and arrested, released into my mom's custody, no court or anything, small charge that got wiped away at 18. I did see my friend when I got back and I apologized and he forgave me because he knew the circumstances and he told me the rumors flying around, one of which was that I drove a car through the doors and slammed his head into the hood..? I thought that was both funny and stupid at the same time.

The reason I didn't turn out like that whack job immigrant russian who killed his family and his son is what I'd believe to be as having a 'wake up call' when it mattered. After hurting my friend, it became a lot harder to supress my emotions, for good and ill when you look at it. I started to mellow out after that since the idea of just how much pain I could cause others really sunk in when I did that.

For some people regrettebly enough, the light bulb never gets turned off and they end up going too far. The mentality of the murder-suicides is that the person doing the crimes knows what they are doing is wrong and that they're going to die and go to Hell, so why not take as many people with them as they can. They end up being disconnected and detatched from their emotions for too long that the brain reverts to the more basic instincts and more aggressive tendancies because the Ego hasn't been helping the Super Ego communicate with the Id because the Ego saw the Id was too strong and ended up supressing the Super Ego. Doing that is when people become VERY unhealthy mentally. If the three sections of the brain don't communicate well, there are going to be issues.

Guess I went a little off-topic. The point is the reason why some people do those god-awful acts isn't always known right away or even at all, but the cause of it is almost always severe mental problems. Any mental health doctor will ask you if you've been sleeping alright for a reason: When you sleep, the Id, Ego, and Super Ego are able to communicate the best because there's almost nothing else going on that can interrupt them.

[Scorpious]

Scorpious

Those kinda murder Suicide stories i really hate.

If life has you down lean into the pitch and take one for the team. Its social Darwinism at its best, but why take out your loved ones with you ill never get.

Around 2001 here in sacramento we had some asshat russian immagrant (not that that matters just always remembered that from the story) that apparently his wife and him got in a fight and she left and went to his sisters and i guess they were talking about what they were fighting about.

He got pissed that she would discuss their personal info with his sister, kill both her and his own sister and her kids. Then went to his mothers house who was watching his 2 year old son, picked up the son and left.

After picking him up i guess the police were on to him and they later found his son in a cardboard box with a few new toys with his throat slit. Apparently the bastard taunted his son into a box with new toys to kill him.

Im normally a pretty liberal guy and even for the most part argue against the death penelty, however after they caught this piece of crap, a couple days later the sacramento county sherriffs found him hung in his cell in the "Suicide watch" wing of the county jail. I cant say im dissappointed that the police werent investigated to heavily over that one.

I just always remember the story cause at the time my first kid was about 10 months old and i couldnt imagine how you look strait on into your sons eyes and put him in a box and kill him. You hear about alot of bad things happening to kids, but man really that first big story after you have one of your own just sticks with you.

A quick edit: If anyone needs this explained to them, just let me know and I'll inform you to the best of my abilities.

Just so everyone knows, if any of you are sensitive to any real degree, you don't want to read on in this post I'm about to make.

I had a craptastic social life basically from middle school right up until two years ago, and that's probably eleven years or so. I had to basically endure people ripping on me all the time so instead of crying like I used to developed a skill which I now regret having: absolute emotional disconnection and detachment. When a human does that, they won't really see as what they'd do as right or wrong, just really something to keep them alive, or to get their point across.

To say I was entirely without friends in high school would be a lie. I had a few, and I do mean literally only a few. I had gotten into so much trouble in middle school and high school because I fought other kids, and I don't mean simply pushing them, I mean stabbing them with pens, beating them until their eyes swelled up and sometimes went to the hospital. How I never ended up going to court is still beyond any rational thought from me. In the eleventh grade I was pretty pissed during lunch and one of my friends politely asked me to move, except I heard something entirely differently and there were these metal beams in some hallways because of those pull-down doors and I slammed him, as well as the back of his head into it.

At that point, I normally would have just walked away, except for the fact I saw the expression of absolute pain on his face and that he was who I considered a real friend. I like to see emotional disconnecting and detatchment as having a light bulb turned on, the light bulb when turned on is basically exerting power to keep the emotions in check. Every now and then though, a power surge hits the house and the light bulbs go out instantly. In essence, my hold over my emotions snapped like a twig being stepped on. I really injured a close friend of mine and I broke down and started crying in the hallway, and in the office, and not because I was in trouble, I was used to that. I was crying because I was afraid I had sent one of my few friends to the hospital.

I got suspended and arrested, released into my mom's custody, no court or anything, small charge that got wiped away at 18. I did see my friend when I got back and I apologized and he forgave me because he knew the circumstances and he told me the rumors flying around, one of which was that I drove a car through the doors and slammed his head into the hood..? I thought that was both funny and stupid at the same time.

The reason I didn't turn out like that whack job immigrant russian who killed his family and his son is what I'd believe to be as having a 'wake up call' when it mattered. After hurting my friend, it became a lot harder to supress my emotions, for good and ill when you look at it. I started to mellow out after that since the idea of just how much pain I could cause others really sunk in when I did that.

For some people regrettebly enough, the light bulb never gets turned off and they end up going too far. The mentality of the murder-suicides is that the person doing the crimes knows what they are doing is wrong and that they're going to die and go to Hell, so why not take as many people with them as they can. They end up being disconnected and detatched from their emotions for too long that the brain reverts to the more basic instincts and more aggressive tendancies because the Ego hasn't been helping the Super Ego communicate with the Id because the Ego saw the Id was too strong and ended up supressing the Super Ego. Doing that is when people become VERY unhealthy mentally. If the three sections of the brain don't communicate well, there are going to be issues.

Guess I went a little off-topic. The point is the reason why some people do those god-awful acts isn't always known right away or even at all, but the cause of it is almost always severe mental problems. Any mental health doctor will ask you if you've been sleeping alright for a reason: When you sleep, the Id, Ego, and Super Ego are able to communicate the best because there's almost nothing else going on that can interrupt them.

[Titanos]

There are sociopaths in the world.  In fact, they are actually pretty common.  They are people who completely lack empathy of any kind.  The vast majority of them aren't violent.  They tend to be functional members of society.  They can even be nice people.  But they only feel their own pain.  Suffering isn't real to them unless they are the ones feeling it directly.  When they are violent, they are merciless.  They cannot have the wake up call like Scorpius described because they never feel guilt or remorse.

That said, some of these stories have cultural elements as well.  The Russian man came from a society where male violence against women and children is still much more tolerated than it is here.  (Between that and the high levels of alcoholism in Russian men, this is why there are so many Russian women looking for husbands outside their own country.)

In Japan, they still have a phenomenon known as a "family suicide".  In the bad old days, if a man was sufficiently dishonored, his entire family would be stained, so he would kill all of them before killing himself.  It still happens.  Only now, sometimes the man has second thoughts after killing his family but before killing himself.  Japanese juries often have sympathy with such men and in extreme cases, they haven't even served any jail time...much to the shock of western observers, of course.

[Titanos]

Titanos

There are sociopaths in the world.  In fact, they are actually pretty common.  They are people who completely lack empathy of any kind.  The vast majority of them aren't violent.  They tend to be functional members of society.  They can even be nice people.  But they only feel their own pain.  Suffering isn't real to them unless they are the ones feeling it directly.  When they are violent, they are merciless.  They cannot have the wake up call like Scorpius described because they never feel guilt or remorse.

That said, some of these stories have cultural elements as well.  The Russian man came from a society where male violence against women and children is still much more tolerated than it is here.  (Between that and the high levels of alcoholism in Russian men, this is why there are so many Russian women looking for husbands outside their own country.)

In Japan, they still have a phenomenon known as a "family suicide".  In the bad old days, if a man was sufficiently dishonored, his entire family would be stained, so he would kill all of them before killing himself.  It still happens.  Only now, sometimes the man has second thoughts after killing his family but before killing himself.  Japanese juries often have sympathy with such men and in extreme cases, they haven't even served any jail time...much to the shock of western observers, of course.

[Scorpious]

There are sociopaths in the world.  In fact, they are actually pretty common.  They are people who completely lack empathy of any kind.  The vast majority of them aren't violent.  They tend to be functional members of society.  They can even be nice people.  But they only feel their own pain.  Suffering isn't real to them unless they are the ones feeling it directly.  When they are violent, they are merciless.  They cannot have the wake up call like Scorpius described because they never feel guilt or remorse.

That said, some of these stories have cultural elements as well.  The Russian man came from a society where male violence against women and children is still much more tolerated than it is here.  (Between that and the high levels of alcoholism in Russian men, this is why there are so many Russian women looking for husbands outside their own country.)

In Japan, they still have a phenomenon known as a "family suicide".  In the bad old days, if a man was sufficiently dishonored, his entire family would be stained, so he would kill all of them before killing himself.  It still happens.  Only now, sometimes the man has second thoughts after killing his family but before killing himself.  Japanese juries often have sympathy with such men and in extreme cases, they haven't even served any jail time...much to the shock of western observers, of course.

I implied the wake-up call in the cases of those who aren't sociopaths nor did I mention how brutal russia is and how alcohol is consumed so much there for those very reasons.

When sociopaths and other factors are introduced, yeah it's true there isn't much that can be done about it, if anything at all.

The Japanese 'Family Seppeku' (spelling?) is indeed based off of Honor. Losing one's honor in Japan is like losing everything here in America, it means that much to them. Hell, if the American soldiers in World War II Ceased Resistance instead of surrendering, they'd have been treated much more humanely. For us, Cease Resistance and Surrender are pretty much the same, but to the Japanese at that time, if you surrendered, you basically said you gave up and would stop fighting. If you would cease resisting, you'd just stop resisting the fight, but you didn't give up, nor did you 'Surrender' your honor. In fact, some say that surrendering to the Japanese back then was surrendering your honor and waiting to die and to just stop resisting would be to just not fight and wait for a more welcome outcome.

[Scorpious]

Scorpious

There are sociopaths in the world.  In fact, they are actually pretty common.  They are people who completely lack empathy of any kind.  The vast majority of them aren't violent.  They tend to be functional members of society.  They can even be nice people.  But they only feel their own pain.  Suffering isn't real to them unless they are the ones feeling it directly.  When they are violent, they are merciless.  They cannot have the wake up call like Scorpius described because they never feel guilt or remorse.

That said, some of these stories have cultural elements as well.  The Russian man came from a society where male violence against women and children is still much more tolerated than it is here.  (Between that and the high levels of alcoholism in Russian men, this is why there are so many Russian women looking for husbands outside their own country.)

In Japan, they still have a phenomenon known as a "family suicide".  In the bad old days, if a man was sufficiently dishonored, his entire family would be stained, so he would kill all of them before killing himself.  It still happens.  Only now, sometimes the man has second thoughts after killing his family but before killing himself.  Japanese juries often have sympathy with such men and in extreme cases, they haven't even served any jail time...much to the shock of western observers, of course.

I implied the wake-up call in the cases of those who aren't sociopaths nor did I mention how brutal russia is and how alcohol is consumed so much there for those very reasons.

When sociopaths and other factors are introduced, yeah it's true there isn't much that can be done about it, if anything at all.

The Japanese 'Family Seppeku' (spelling?) is indeed based off of Honor. Losing one's honor in Japan is like losing everything here in America, it means that much to them. Hell, if the American soldiers in World War II Ceased Resistance instead of surrendering, they'd have been treated much more humanely. For us, Cease Resistance and Surrender are pretty much the same, but to the Japanese at that time, if you surrendered, you basically said you gave up and would stop fighting. If you would cease resisting, you'd just stop resisting the fight, but you didn't give up, nor did you 'Surrender' your honor. In fact, some say that surrendering to the Japanese back then was surrendering your honor and waiting to die and to just stop resisting would be to just not fight and wait for a more welcome outcome.

[Titanos]

When sociopaths and other factors are introduced, yeah it's true there isn't much that can be done about it, if anything at all.

Interestingly, sociopathy isn't not uniform between different societies.  It is more common in western societies where individualism is celebrated over collectivism.  That's not exactly a thrilling statistic, especially for a person with a civil libertarian bent such as myself.  Also, sociopaths also more prevalent at the extreme ends of the economic spectrum, among the very rich and the very poor, so there is definitely an environmental root to the creation of these sociopaths.  So maybe there are things we can do before people grow up to be this way.  Cna't say I know exactly what those things are, however...

I know this is weird to say, but I actually find the fact that there are so many sociopaths living in this country an odd sort of comfort.  The vast majority of them are never arrested for a crime, let alone a violent crime.  Since they obviously aren't avoiding a life of crime for moral reasons, society itself must be discouraging it for them.  That means for all our problems, there are *some* things we must be doing right.

[Titanos]

Titanos

When sociopaths and other factors are introduced, yeah it's true there isn't much that can be done about it, if anything at all.

Interestingly, sociopathy isn't not uniform between different societies.  It is more common in western societies where individualism is celebrated over collectivism.  That's not exactly a thrilling statistic, especially for a person with a civil libertarian bent such as myself.  Also, sociopaths also more prevalent at the extreme ends of the economic spectrum, among the very rich and the very poor, so there is definitely an environmental root to the creation of these sociopaths.  So maybe there are things we can do before people grow up to be this way.  Cna't say I know exactly what those things are, however...

I know this is weird to say, but I actually find the fact that there are so many sociopaths living in this country an odd sort of comfort.  The vast majority of them are never arrested for a crime, let alone a violent crime.  Since they obviously aren't avoiding a life of crime for moral reasons, society itself must be discouraging it for them.  That means for all our problems, there are *some* things we must be doing right.